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Where to Start?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by biker883, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. biker883

    biker883 New Member

    Hello community traders,

    I am new to options trading, but having read and listen quite a few videos -
    Can experienced options traders recommend what/where should I get effective educational material/mentoring as it is difficult to find the right spot.
    Anyone willing to help me
    Thank you

    Gerald
     
  2. Rich S

    Rich S Member

    What is your trading background?
     
  3. biker883

    biker883 New Member

    I have traded forex on/off for a year, but can't make it steady due to day work.
    I have an IB funded account in which I am trying to take some positions but woul like to find a more constant approach.
    If you want to know if I am completely new to options ( I started reading about 4 months ago)
    I also have tested how options work with a TOS demo account since January 2015. This is how I got interested
    Tried to upload a copy of the TOS statement, but I get an error message.

    thanks you
     
  4. Gabor Maly

    Gabor Maly Well-Known Member

    Hi Biker,
    If you are just starting out you probably want to get a strong overall foundation before moving into some of the more complex strategies discussed here. One of the sites I would recommend is http://www.james16group.us/forums/index.php. Kevin Sass there is options instructor and given there were a lot of people interested in learning options he has started running webinars that explains the basics, different strategies, platform (TOS), etc and he will be moving on the more advanced topics as time goes. Once you have got your hands dirty and tried and traded different strategies then you could start looking into John Locke's or Tony Sizmore's strategies and courses, many of them discussed here.

    There are of course million ways to skin a cat so this is just one approach.
     
  5. Rich S

    Rich S Member

    I second the recommendation for a John Locke program after you learn the basics. Locke's Super Simple Spreads might be a good starting point and the Trading Triangle program would probably be a good choice when it comes out.

    You will definitely want to invest in some options analysis software if you plan on trading options to any extent. Most folks use either OptionVue or OptionNet Explorer (ONE). These will allow you to back test strategies which I highly recommend and analyze your live positions.

    Start very very small or paper trade options until you have experienced how options selling strategies react during a big move in the underlying and the associated vol spike. I'm sure you have heard the disclaimers before but you can and will experience large drawdowns when selling options. Pay close attention to position sizing when selling options. For example, I've been trading options for 4 years, I've been consistently profitable for a little less than 2 years, and I know I haven't experienced or traded through a large market meltdown. Because of the potential to lose a very large percentage of the funds I invest in selling options, I only invest a small percentage of my liquid net worth in options strategies (in my case, about 15%) and then I only risk about 2-3% of that 15% on any individual strategy or trade.

    There are a lot of smart and experienced people here at Capital Discussions. If you haven't already listen in on some of the recorded trading group sessions I would recommend that. You may find a group that you want to actively participate in.

    I wish you good luck and happy trading!
     
    GreenZone likes this.
  6. biker883

    biker883 New Member

    Thank you for you replies and advices
    Gerry
     
  7. David R

    David R Member

    Quick question for those who have purchased John Locke programs. I have not found a way to view the videos other than on a windows based desktop and/or laptop. I would like to be able to watch them on my android phone or IPAD but I'm not sure what I need. Ideally I'd like to download them so that it wouldn't be a data drain if I'm away from wifi but just being able to watch them from anywhere would be very helpful. Thanks in advance for any ideas.
     
  8. Muthu Kumar

    Muthu Kumar New Member

    David - any feedback on John Locke's SSS program?
     
  9. David R

    David R Member

    Muthu, I don't have any personal experience with the SSS program although I'm sure from everything I've heard they are excellent.
     
  10. Bruno

    Bruno Moderator Staff Member

    For someone who has a day job, I would recommend the Weirdor that is very easy to trade and a good way to get a basic hang of the Greeks. John Locke's butterfly programs are more advanced.
     
  11. Muthu Kumar

    Muthu Kumar New Member

    Thanks. I purchased M3 and currently reviewing the materials. I found one pdf on Weirdor on the net. Will check it out.
     
  12. Isaac Embley

    Isaac Embley Guest

    Thanks for sharing !!
    Recently I have also started investing in some share market.
     
  13. Sorry, I didn't have any experience.
     
  14. Gasman

    Gasman Member

    If you prefer to learn one on one, I recommend the CD mentoring program. I read several books and watched many videos. Learned a tremendous amount but for me
    one on one mentoring was the most efficient method.
     
    Kenneth A. Oathcarn likes this.
  15. Absolutely seconded.

    As another newcomer to options trading I've been going through the same process over the past few months. Paid trading education is such a minefield of charlatans that I've consciously avoided using it previously in other parts of my trader development. This is a (totally personal, YMMV) decision I'm comfortable with and on reflection as I've progressed through various stages has served me well.

    Once I started to appreciate the depth of complexity and nuance options trading involves, I realised that making an exception to this rule was probably going to pay dividends. For context - I'm a reasonably technical, multi-strategy systematic / quant. with a mixed background in sports arbitrage, poker, formal statistics / probability training, have designed and traded statistical arbitrage strategies in equities etc. - so, generally speaking, am not afraid of complexity!

    I consider myself lucky to have stumbled across Capital Discussions early on in the progression of my interest in options. It's served as a yardstick of quality against which to measure other resources and to date remains the gold standard for me. The members Beginner Trading Group, Trading Group 2 and Round Table discussions are of such a consistently high quality you could spend significant time digging deeper in to the topics discussed and not run out of relevant learning material.

    When I was ready to take the step and actively start learning a strategy to trade I read all of the threads here and considered all of the usual suspects. All of the training providers will do a "free session" (read: pre-sales exercise) where you can ask questions and discuss your specific situation, goals and requirements. I highly recommend that you do this.

    As a part of the process I reached out to Dan Harvey, who put me in touch with Tim Pierson, one of the mentors here at CD. Tim and I spoke and I formed the opinion that a CD package was going to be the best way to proceed for me personally. Dan was able to put together a package that addressed my particular needs at a price point I considered to be highly competitive.

    One of the biggest advantages to this approach in my opinion is the inclusion of a core bundle of subscriptions (Option Vue, Road Trip Service, Capital Discussions Membership) that are absolutely advantageous. If you price these up individually at the retail / advertised price, assuming you'd need to buy them anyway, the cost of the mentoring component is almost insignificant.

    I've been working with Tim to learn the Road Trip Trade and have accumulated a significant body of knowledge through his teaching that would have taken several orders of magnitude longer individually, even with the use of the trade service / education. I absolutely can't recommend this service highly enough and I genuinely believe having pulled the trigger on it personally has saved me many months of trial-end-error.
     
    Luke likes this.
  16. Kevin CK

    Kevin CK Active Member

    If you find a good mentor whose services are reasonably priced, you almost can't go wrong with the investment. A good mentor will help you to build confidence in your trading mechanics and psychology. I believe the hardest part of trading is establishing the confidence in whatever trading methodology you choose; this mental and emotional conditioning is crucial for long term success. When I started trading options spreads, I experienced success early on and this led me to the erroneous belief that I knew what I was doing. Once the market conditions changed, I realized how ill prepared I was for the regime change. This painful lesson ultimately led me to find a mentor and from that experience I began to familiarize and condition myself to the various market environments. Perhaps the most important lesson I picked up from my mentor was the value of staying with a trade even when it was going against me as long as your parameters for exiting have not been hit; this is something that I am still honing. It's easy to watch videos of traders sharing this piece of advice, but it's much more difficult to put it into practice especially when your positions are moving swiftly towards your max loss or exit condition. In these moments, having a mentor who has far more experience and is also going through the same challenges with his/her trades is invaluable. My one recommendation is to try and spread out your mentoring sessions out in order to experience as many market environments while mentoring. I've found that the most helpful mentoring sessions occurred when the markets were doing what I did not want them to do.

    Unfortunately, I don't believe there are short cuts when it comes to this process; perhaps the closest option is working with a great mentor. I have never worked with CD mentors, but from the quality of the active members in the forums and the trades that have originated from this community, if I were to start from scratch with a mentor I wouldn't hesitate to sign up.

    Hope that helps!
     
    Luke likes this.
  17. Brandon

    Brandon New Member

    I second the vote for John Locke although I will recommend the Bearish Butterfly instead of Super Simple Spreads.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
     
  18. Jason A

    Jason A Member

    If you are new and want to start with the basics, the SSS is a good place to start. It also contain a simpler version of the Bearish Butterfly. The complete Bearish Butterfly program has several guidelines which can sound a little complicated for new comers.
     
  19. csprings

    csprings New Member

    Hi, I am new to this site. I am still participating in a couple of programs offered by Ryan Jones. My very unsophisticated modeling of his approach (generally selling weekly SPY diagonals of different flavors) led me to suspect his approach does not have a positive expectancy without adding something extra. I suspect that he might have had a workable edge in previous years but that options pricing has become less favorable as the weekly options market has matured, I don't have any hard data for that suspicion, just that the setups he teaches don't seem to occur any more and the OTM volatility does not seem to behave the way he teaches, so we end up taking trades that might have the right general shape on the profit graph, but if you look closely, the probabilities over time don't favor the trade. I landed here because I was trying to research sounder approaches to diagonals, which led me to Dan Sheridan and the google trail led from there to here.

    Anyway, in looking over the site, there are many choices for ways to spend money or not. I see there is the Ali course on weekly SPY stuff, that would be interesting if it is sound, since I've wasted a bunch of time on other SPY weekly systems that don't work, or is it a course about an approach that worked through 2015 but now no longer works? Is there a forum for people following that weekly SPY approach?

    Then there is the VolVantage thing, but it has no actual data, only modelled data, and you have to buy 6 months to get a peek behind the curtain. Why the different pricing model? Of course it would be wonderful if it were true that future reality matched the model, why mess with all this complicated options stuff if you can just trade some etfs. I have also followed a trend following system for about 6 years, and the author has had to think deeply about why his trend following system has appeared to stop working, how markets may have fundamentally changed and continue to be changing.

    Or I could go cadillac class and do one of the mentorship programs, but I'm a bit skittish, having wasted so much money in the past on ineffective programs, approaches that look good on paper but don't perform in real life for whatever reason, either the market has evolved to take away the edge, or it requires fills that aren't achievable or time during the trading day that isn't possible, or account blowout risks that are unacceptable, or margin risk I'm not comfortable with. I have blown out an account trading iron condors during a market meltup, it's not something I care to repeat. In fact I think I've done about every foolish thing a trader can do, and yet I have not yet given up completely, but I'm on the fence.

    Anyway, after poking around, my head is spinning a little, there is alot to think about with all the choices, so if anyone has any thoughts or wants to point me to a different forum, I'd appreciate it!
     
  20. DGH

    DGH Administrator

    Hi csprings. Since you are very risk averse, why not take a trial of the Road Trip Trade. You can get a feel for how it works at roadtriptrade.com. I think we are still offering a 15 day trial for $1.00 which allows you to have access to videos , text alerts, the performance history and equity curve, and a view of the performance metrics. If you are interested, please contact Tom at Capital Discussions. This is a strategy which was designed for risk averse traders. I have not had a losing trade in the past year, and any losses before that were very small. I send out comprehensive alerts of all my live working orders and fills, and Tom and I do a weekly video review and monthly Q&A session.
     

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