TOS New SPX Weeklys and simulated trades

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Scott Slivnik, Feb 24, 2016.

  1. Scott Slivnik

    Scott Slivnik Well-Known Member

    Today I was analyzing a butterfly I opened weeks ago in the Mar1 cycle and noticed that the greeks were off. I discovered the cause was I imported the simulated trades for the butterfly into TOS yesterday and TOS selected the NEW Mar1 expiration that expires on Wednesday rather than the Mar1 expiration the trade was in.

    For example, if you import BUY +1 BUTTERFLY SPX 100 (Weeklys) MAR1 16 1920/1875/1800 PUT @5.45 LMT into TOS, the new Mar1 expiration will be selected. If you click the Mar1 16 drop-down for the simulated trade, two Mar1 16 entries are available.

    Having two expirations with the same label may cause confusion.

    Right now Mar1 16 and Mar2 16 are affected.
  2. Trader G

    Trader G Well-Known Member

    I have had all kinds of adventures with TOS lately and this was one of them. I had a fly doing the same thing. Another item that I found is that if you are creating a multi-leg trade, be very careful how you change the buy sell qty and then export the simulated trade. Specifically, I created a vertical and flipped around the +/- of the strikes to give me the right profile (instead of changing the buy to a sell, etc.) and while it looked correct on the simulated tab once I exported it and imported back in it reversed the buy vs sell. In other words the import saw a buy in the .txt file and didn't notice the reversal of the + and - I had done in the analyze section. It will do the same thing when you are manipulating strikes on an iron condor. When you are keeping track of a fly with a bunch of vertical adjustments, changing the buy/sell can really mess up your greeks! The TOS support guy had no clue so I have a feeling I am one of the few dumb enough to create this issue. The lesson learned though is to verify your .txt import is correct. Now if I could just get them to fix the candle color from fading after the update last Saturday I would be set.
  3. Ken

    Ken New Member

    The CBOE just recently began also trading Weeklies expiring on Wednesday. That's why you are seeing two Mar1's and two Mar2's. Here is the CBOE press release: The new Wednesday Weeklies are also mentioned on the CBOE's overview page on Weeklies,

    The CBOE says that only the closest two, near term, Wednesday expirations will be available at any time.

    On the TOS Trade and Analyze pages, the expiration cycles are listed in ascending DTE sequence. Whenever there are two expirations shown for a given week, the first one (that is the one with the lower DTE) will be the Wednesday expiration.

    TOS Trade Page, Wednesday Weeklies.png My annotations in purple.

    ONE is already showing the Wednesday weeklies, showing Wednesday calendar dates for them. No mention is made that it's a Weekily, so don't get confused and think that it is the normal third week of the month Monthly. Pay careful attention to the expiration date ONE shows.

    ONE Matrix, Wednesday Weeklies.png My annotations in purple.

    (Edited for clarity.)
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
  4. Andrew C

    Andrew C Well-Known Member

  5. status1

    status1 Well-Known Member

    Now it it will probably make the simulated trade account analyzer even less reliable
    Right now I can't place any calendar trades on SPX that will show up on the analyzer tab correctly
    They all show a flat line
    The live account seems to work better at the moment
    Did any one who trades SPX calendars in the simulated account notice this bug on the analyze tab in TOS ?
  6. Rich

    Rich Member

    Not only did I notice it, I have complained almost daily to TOS about it. I can easily have 20 or more adjustments on a long-running BF trade, and now I have to correct every single transaction every time I view my actual position PNL on the Analyze page, in order to plan my next adjustment.

    CBOE is not to blame this screwed up Analyze page, only TDA for not testing their software before releasing it with support for Wednesday Weeklies. This is a BUG in the software. They didn't think through the implications of NOT storing the actual OPRA code in the TradeLog text files that get created / saved / loaded / deleted on the Analyze page. Stupid, stupid, stupid lack of foresight and testing. I was losing 60 minutes every day managing 6 open March positions.

    Please complain vociferously so they fix this bug as soon as possible.

    ALSO... PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE also DEMAND a drop-down filter for "Show By Expiration" next to the "Show By Symbol" instrument filter on the Account Statement page. We need this to make our trade management a lot easier using the Analyze Page. If enough people demand it, maybe in a few months they'll actually deliver it.

    This Wednesday Weeklies bug is my latest and most practical reason for not trading into expiration less than 14 days. Because TOS cannot handle it !! And I can't handle the frustrating loss of time. Flame off.
  7. Dennis L

    Dennis L Member

    I agree. It's difficult to fathom that TOS does no outgoing quality checks, has no software regressions or unit tests for each area of functionality that they run and must pass before making a new release. It's a workflow that everyone else in the software industry uses.

    After many many years and nearly 100 emails back and forth calling out bugs and issues, I'm done. I moved 2 of 4 account to Interactive Brokers and using Light Speed / LiveVol X (as well as ONE) for order entry and management. I've lost too much money with TOS and they've only refunded a fraction of it. The only venue I've found that gets a response is to use twitter with your tweet directed @tdameritrade. I was 'tweeting' out bugs and issues almost daily.

    They've hired a social media team to monitor and protect their reputation, as thousands of people follow TD Ameritrade on twitter. :(
  8. status1

    status1 Well-Known Member

    Well at least now I know I am not the only one and the problem is not with my pc
    I wish I could find something better but there is none at least not at the free price range

    If another broker were smart enough to offer a free analyzer like TOS that actually works I am sure a lot of traders would flock to that broker
    I think TOS messed around too much with the software to make it cute and fancy and neglected the basics
    Next time they come around with the survey they will not get good grades
    Maybe than they will wake up
  9. Dennis L

    Dennis L Member

    Well, I can't say it's better, but after many years of TOS with the last year being one bug after another, I've decided to move 2 accounts to Light Speed using LiveVolX for the front end. Light Speed clears through IB, so there is also an option to trade through IB directly or using ONE. The commissions are $0.65/contract with $1.50 min charge plus they pass along exchange fees. It turns out to be:

    $1.05/contract for any indices (except SPX),
    $1.27/contract for SPX
    $0.65/contract for equities

    Of course there are further discounts for volume. I believe futures are $1 and drop to $0.50 after 500 trades a month, big savings for me from TOS.

    It only been 1 week and 1 trade, so far too early to tell if it's "better"
  10. status1

    status1 Well-Known Member

    This is a little of topic but if you can trade 500 contracts or more per month than you have a lot more choices than TOS
    I don't think anyone can or needs to do 500 trades per month if you are doing a road trip trade or other type of bwb trades

    You mentioned Live vol and I looked at their website and one of the deals caught my eye
    The liv vole core has a deal with Tradier brokerage saying it's free if you have an account with them\
    Than I also looked at the Tradier brokerage and saw a deal with Option net Explorer for $55/mo which sounded interesting to me
    I was wondering if anyone here is using Tradier brokerage with Option net Explorer or if there are any better deals than that anywhere else
  11. Trebor

    Trebor New Member

    I'm a newbie here and just attempted to try some backtrading to learn from one of the services (Kevlar). I'm using the TOS on Demand to go back in time and test some prior trades. My T+ 0 line is not showing so I spoke to a rep and his answer was " the on demand system is quirkiy". A different rep came up with some excuse regarding the amount of data that's coming in may be throwing off a number. Does anyone else use on demand for backtesting? Any suggestions?
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
  12. Trader G

    Trader G Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, the analyze tab using Ondemand is useless. You won't get accurate greeks/ t+0 lines. I recommend if you want to backtest properly use what Jim does which is Optionvue. That way you can see the trade as he does and your greeks will match what he saw when he was trading.
  13. HRK

    HRK Guest

    Can you push your order directly to TOS via the optionvue software. I was told by one of their reps last month, that this might be possible soon.
  14. Bryan Doyle

    Bryan Doyle Well-Known Member

    According to this update from Len (OV) it is coming with this weekend's software update. Personally, i would be careful using it at first until you ensure it works correctly.
  15. status1

    status1 Well-Known Member

    It's not quirky it's nor working
    I am sure there is a lot of data coming in but that never stopped it from working before
    I think thry just given up fixing it I told them about it last year and they did nothing about it

    You could try forward testing
    That's kind of what I am doing since there is no other alternative
    I am not doing the Kevlar I am just doing one lot of BWB which can be set up in the same place as the Kevlar or the RTT and than just watch it daily at the end of the day and use the analyze tab to see how the trade can be kept profitable depending on which way the market moves and see which adjustment works best This can be done with a relatively small account
    You can do this in the live account with simulated or real trades
    I would not use the paper trade account for this as it can move after hours and give you a false p/l
    As you get more confidence that you can defend the trade you can scale up to the Kevlar or the RTT but you would need a larger account for that

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