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  1. I am sure most are aware that Tom Sosnoff (founder of Thinkorswim) has announced a new brokerage firm "TastyWorks."

    I wonder what people think. Personally I think it is great news. So many of the small options brokers have been taken over in the past few years that competition is way down. Secondly, Sosnoff always brings something great to the table. My bet, Tastyworks turns out to be something special. Thinkorswim (under sosnoff) was certainly a paradigm shift, I wonder if he can do it again.
    I think TastyWorks is kicking off Jan 3, 2017.

    I'd love to ehar what Jim and Tom N think!

    Howard S
  2. Sure did - super exciting news! I had an email on that last night and watched Tom's announcement today on tastytrade. I really love their show, which drew me into income investing in general, and loving TOS too. I actually like their dough platform in a lot of ways, it just doesn't have nearly enough of the analytics I wanted.

    They made clear they will be releasing a new trading platform in January. At first it will likely be some kind of love child of TOS and Dough, and get a lot more development effort and new features over time. The announcement made clear that the platform functionality will first and foremost support the types of things they cover in the show. In my mind, something with the speed and flexibility of TOS, ability to use thinkorswim scripts, the user friendliness of Dough, the pricing of IB, and the best features of OptionVue, would be killer :) That's a pipe dream, but I can hope!

    One feature they hinted at, and I hope they do well, is the ability to do some serious back-testing on options strategies, to give retail investors the ability to do the kind of research they routinely do for their show. That won't necessarily help the kind of trades popular here which have non-mechanical subjective adjustments, but it would still be a great capability I don't see elsewhere. Others thoughts on tastytrade / tastyworks?
  3. More choice is always a good thing for everyone. Is there any more information or demos available?
  4. More competition is always good. It all boils down to what commission rate they charge. I rather have the cheapest rate with reasonable execution. Would be willing to sacrifice sophisticated tools - b'cos most of them isn't good enough to begin with. 50 cents per contract no ticket charge would be great. Like what TradeMonster used to offer. Let's wait and see....
  5. Has anyone tried to sign up for the launch at the website? I have tried several times, but keep getting a message to try again five minutes later.
  6. I was able to sign up with my email for updates...
  7. I signed up yesterday. Curious what the Commission schedule will look like. 10cents, no ticket would be nice! :rolleyes:
  8. From what I heard on the video it will be something like Dough with a web and software version supposedly built on the High frequency backbone or a platform that the high frequency traders use
    I am not sure what that means for the average regular trader
    Does that mean we have to get faster pc's
    He also said that the fee structure will be the same for everyone so I guess no special discount for volume traders
    Basically the same as Dough but they will be in control of everything
    I guess we will wait and see how it looks
  9. I heard the comments about commissions too. But "same for everyone" can mean a bunch of different things. Does it mean that everyone gets the same discount based on volume? Does it mean everyone gets the same discount based on size of their account. Maybe a combination of the two, or as suggested does it mean everyone regardless of volume or account size gets the commission. I doubt that there will not be some sort of incentive to trade with them. Its entirely possible that the commissions schedule will be more transparent than other brokers. Tom SOs is pretty sharp, I highly doubt that they are building a model that does not encourage high volume traders to come their way. Either way, I am interested to see what they come up with.
  10. Although I absolute agree with what was said about commissions and more choice, I am not so optimistic about their analytics. For example, not everyone prefers cheaper IB over TOS for exactly this reason. I would not expect to see scripting, Analyze graph or skew there any time soon, because it is not in Tom's style. I can't see a person trading in M3/RoadTrip style benefiting much from Dough's tool-set.
  11. I like the TOS mobile platform and as of now I make all my trades are over the mobile app. thinkorswim app is pretty clunky in my opinion. I use a Mac and have not been able to get optionVue etc. in a virtual environment as I use almost all my RAM for work related apps. However, over the years, tradingview has emerged as the go to place for looking up stock charts (and also live prices). If a similar alternative was available for options (web based, nice UI), I will jump in a heartbeat. My phone may still be my primary trading place, but a bigger screen provides so much more information and so many more capabilities that if done well would ease lot of the work. Not saying that tasty is doing it but if they would be primarily web based, I will definitely check them out.
  12. Tastyworks posted there new commissions schedule this morning. And, it is killer!

    Option opening trades are a buck a contract plus 10 cents exchange fees. No charge to close. No ticket charges, and no commissions on closing trades, ever. Tastyworks is going to put a lot of pressure on the other brokers.
  13. I guess this will not be valid for SPX, exchange fees alone are $0,40 (and more).
  14. I believe so too. If they charge $0.1 rut and spx fees then it'll be really fantastic. But if they charge $0.5 fees then it's not that attractive.
  15. TastyWorks fee schedule link as sent by Aron this morning:


    SPX = $0.65 per contract ... so if I read this correctly:
    Open SPX contract = $1.00 + .10 +.65 = $1.75
    Close SPX contract = .10 + .65 = $0.75
    Total Round Trip = $1.75 + $0.75 = $2.50

    I currently have $1.25 per contract with no ticket charge at TOS. It looks like a wash to me at my current fee structure.
  16. I just double checked with tastyworks. Your calculation is accurate. So SPX isn't a good deal compared to TOS. But RUT is not bad. Same calculation shows $1.56 round trip or $0.78 per contract per trip.

    Hmm... no motivation for me to move then
  17. So the lot size would make no difference ?
    1 option would be the same as 10 options ?
    So let.s say a 5/10/5 butterfly trade in SPX would cost $7.50 round trip ?
    I would say that's pretty good for most small time traders who don't have any discounts for volume or other special deals
    I am paying about 4 times as much just to get in so that would be good for me if that is true
  18. What makes you say that, status1? Both these fees (trade fee, exchange fee) are per contract. So a 5/10/5 butterfly will cost you 2.50 round trip X 20 contracts = 50 bucks
  19. Sorry I guess misunderstood the meaning of contract That's why I had to ask to make sure I understand the fees
    I thought 1 contract meaning one trade so 3 contracts meaning 3 trades would be 2.50 x 3 = 7.50 I guess that was too good to be true
    I probably got confused with the other brokerage that have a trade fee and than a smaller fee per options
    So you are saying 1 contract is for 1 lot so that one butterfly would be $10 so a 5 lot would be $50 ?
    Considering that this is a round trip fee than it's a little bit better than the discount brokers (about $10 maybe) it's probably still worth it now it just depends on what else the have to offer

  20. I also pay a flat $1.25/contract at TOS. TOS does add an additional $0.03-0.04 fee per contract so the actual cost at TOS is between $1.28 - $1.29/contract. Switching to Tastyworks would result in a cost reduction when trading SPX but the savings would be minimal and not worth it for me. If I traded equities or RUT more often, I would consider switching months from now after the dust settles.
  21. I think a lot of people mention 1.25 per contract with Ameritrade / thinkorswim so with 20 contracts X 2 (roundtrip) X 1.25, it comes out to same = 50 bucks. It may be better for RUT etc., but for SPX it is a wash.
  22. So I guess this is aimed more toward those traders that don't have a special deal or discount like the 1.25 mentioned
    That way a small time trader can have a similar fee as someone who has a discount for volume trades
    So you don't have to trade 500 to 1000 option trades just to get a special discount you could trade just one per month and have a similar fee I think that's probably what they meant by leveling the playing field
  23. Right but if you go beyond, there are so many people who trade RUT and then individual equity options or ETF options like TLT, GLD. RUT fees are lower by 47 cents each side (65 - 18), same for NDX. And stock / ETF options, the fees are lower by 55 cents each side (65 - 10). For those instruments ... it makes quite a lot of sense because if you negotiated 1.25, I presume it is the same for SPX vs RUT vs SPY vs TLT.

    So the same 5/10/5 butterfly on RUT will be about 27 bucks as compared to 50 for SPX. A whole lot better. And given that so many people trade RUT and let us say a lot more start doing it because of the fees, it does a) level the playing field that you do not need to negotiate and b) put pressure on big guys.
  24. TOS (TD Ameritrade) does charge the same commission for index, ETF and equity options. $1.25/contract is about as good as it gets currently for SPX and VIX but is a crappy rate for everything else.

  25. Apart from the commissions, I do not see any meaningful options analysis charts (P&L, volatility, different DTEs, adjustment tests, etc). All I see on the website is a probability curve. Tom & Tony trade mainly based on probabilities, they hardly look at P&L charts or any charts so their platform seems to be tailored to their trading style. The slogan is "trade small, trade often" with some of their guys doing 5000 - 7000 trades/yr and letting the probabilities work out. My style is different. I trade few large trades and do not care about probabilities that much. I still prefer TOS anyday.
    On a different topic, I suspect that Tastyworks will be bought over by TD or another brokerage a few years down the road. My own opinion.
  26. Ha ha once you have learnt how to build and sell a company (and have cred doing it), repeating it is much simpler than actually running a company for profits. True !
  27. Trade small, trade often .... that's obviously any broker's dream. :)
  28. That's a very common strategy in the start-up world. Your business plan is to develop a technology far enough to get the interest of deep-pocketed buyers and make your fortune when bought out by the highest bidder.
  29. Hi,
    The cheap commission structure for options trading, AFAIK are:
    https://www.lightspeed.com/pricing/commission/ ($0.60/contract, no ticket charge; Smart Router to exchange or can go Direct Routing; Pass Through Exchange/Taker Fees)
    https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=commission&p=options1 ($0.70/contract; $1 minimum/ticket; Smart Router or Direct to Market Routing; Pass Through Exchange Rebate/Taker Fees)
    https://brokerage.tradier.com/pricing ($0.35/contract; $5 minimum/single leg; $7 minimum/multi-leg; not sure about how it routes orders)

    I use IB for execution; ToS for options analytics; and Tastytrade for entertainment,

    I believe there is a serious conflict of interest for TastyTrade to tout a "Trade Small, Trade Often" strategy as it was previously affiliated with TDAmeritrade and now with TastyWorks:

    Tom Sosnoff et al. lost a lot of credibility IMHO touting Karen the Supertrader who traded naked strangles on SPX who was exposed by SEC for false accounting when she drew down in 2014 market correction; in 4 or 5 of her interviews with Sosnoff, either of them mentioned any meaningful ways of managing her positions via option greeks and her P&L can change exponentially by Gamma, Vega or associated second-order greeks, just "sell naked some OTM option calls and puts and you too can mint money,"

  30. I think when comparing fees you have to look at the total fees and also the quantity
    So it's not exactly apples to apples comparison
    Some brokerages have platform fees which are based on a certain amount of trading volume or have a tier fees based on volume or a fixed per trade fee plus an additional smaller fee per option contract

    It all depends on the individual traders trading style
    Some make small trades often while others have a longer investment time horizon

    So of course for Tastytrade "Trade Small, Trade Often" works better compare to a brokerage that have a per trade commission plus a per contract fee but that tends to diminish as you increase the contract size
    From what I learned about the fees here speaking for SPX only so let's say I place one option trade that would cost $2.50 round trip The same trade at my brokerage that would cost about $13 just to get in so that sounds like a good deal if I only traded a few contracts at a time

    On the other hand for 26 contracts at Tastytrade the commission would be $65 for round trip while at my brokerage I just paid 32.79 to get in so assuming I can get out in one trade and assuming the same commission that would cost $65.58 round trip
    So in this case I would only gain $0.58 cents in which case the advantage is minimal and not really worth it to move there unless they have something else to offer
  31. status1: if all you are doing a single contract trade, you do not need a big broker, you could find a cheaper broke and find per contract fees that even if not low are reasonable.
  32. I am doing around 20 contracts basically a 5/10/5 bwb in one trade sometimes I may add a condor for another 22 contracts but than I keep that for hopefully more than a month or until I feel I need to make an adjustment
    I think I explored most of the discount brokers and I have an account with a few of them
    Do you have an example of such a broker that has these low reasonable fees with no additional charges or requirements to get this reasonable rate ?
    I am just curious if you are thinking of a broker that I have an account with already or maybe you know of one that I never heard about until now
  33. I am not an expert in all brokers, but does not IB (interactive brokers) charge per contract fee to start with anyways?
  34. True but Tastyworks charges per contract too but when you factor in all the fees and the contract size the commission for me and my trading size it's hardly any difference
    I tried IB out sometime in 2015 I think but I did not like the platform I guess for someone who got used to the TOS platform is not easy to get used IB platform plus they are charging extra to get quotes for SPX and RUT and some other fees as well so I did not want to start trading and than find out what the real cost is with all of the fees factored in
    It's difficult to calculate what the real commission is with all the nickel and dime fees added in If they had a better platform with a simple low commission I may have opened an account there
    I haven't even tried the option analytics which would be another big decision factor whether to open an account there or not
  35. i'd be interested to hear if anyone has successfully opened a Tastyworks account, and what your thoughts are on the platform. Personally there was some delay in getting an "invitation" to open my account. Tastyworks was not licensed to do business in all 50 states on day 1 (Jan 3rd) so many people experienced delays. Slowly they have gotten their paperwork done and are now licensed in 48 states. After I received my invite and completed the application several days passed before approval. After approval I downloaded the platform. At the present there is no mobile capability whatsoever. I believe there are plans to change that at some time. The platform seems to be very very simple. Customization is very limited. No futures whatsoever. I found that the Tastytrade portion was great. So if you like to watch Tom S several hours a day the platform is for you. I found the limits on the watchlist customization and very limited data to be difficult (and disappointing.) For example the watchlist removes futures each time you close the platform (futures for viewing not trading.) The watchlist becomes alphabetized and can not be customized. No bid ask SIZE is available. In short,many of the "features" that I took for granted (since every other platform I have ever used had them) are unavailable. Funding has its own set of issues. The clearing firm is Apex. I believe that Apex is the successor in interest to the infamous Penson. (I would recommend everyone be aware of what this means in terms of the safety of your funds.)

    I would guess that the platform might improve over time. I think right now its not really ready for prime time. Seems like they rushed it out.

    These are my initial impressions. (I thought it would be pretty good right out of the gate. I dont think it is and am pretty disappointed.)

    I'd be interested in what others think?

    Howard S
  36. I've opened a tastyworks account and have been trading with it for a week now. Here are my impressions:

    1. The fees are outstanding. I am now paying 1/4 the money in commissions that I was with TD. People rip on tastytrade for encouraging "trade small trade often," but tastyworks definitely makes it more than affordable to do so. If you like to "trade big, trade less often," more power to you. I like the profits I've been generating with brute force probabilities and I prefer not losing sleep over any particular trade.

    2. The Fills! The fills in tastyworks feel like butter. I've been getting filled a few pennies above mid-price (even in wider bid-ask spreads) constantly. It almost surprises me every time because I used to always have to creep closer and closer to the natural price. I know Tom said they were building the brokerage on top of a high frequency trading system, so I assume that is why (the computers are more anxious to take the bids). I'd like them to talk about this more on the tastytrade show.

    3. The software. Tom did state that the first release of the tastyworks platform was going to have the basics only, and they would build from there. That is probably why they are slowing rolling it out via invitation letters. So we are essentially beta-testers to a degree. The software seems to auto-update with more features everyday, so it is getting more robust at a rapid pace. If you only trade with tastytrade methodologies, everything you need is already there and it looks and feels great. If there are any glitches, you can always go on the web platform, (which used to be Dough).

    4. Switching brokerages is a pain. Wait to be approved. Wait for ACH verification. Wait for money to go through. Wait, wait, wait. It's worth it, but frustrating that in 2017 we still can't do something like this with our money in one day.

    Those are my primary reactions. So far, tastyworks has greatly exceeded my expectations.
  37. I was wondering from those who have opened an account there if there are any issues placing BWB trades ?
    Is it just as easy as the TOS platform where you can place any order combination without being locked into a certain order type ?
    Some brokerages have a problem accepting BWB trades or anything that is unbalanced
    That would be my only reason to transfer one of my accounts there
  38. I've placed several broken wing butterflies in tastyworks. I like to use the curve view, and just select "long butterfly" then drag one of the outside wings out further. Click send, and done. Once again, the fills are scary fast and liquid. I used to have to walk the price of BWBs way down before I'd get a fill (due to the combination of strike prices) . . . . but not with tastyworks--I hope it stays that way.
  39. Thanks
    That's good to know
    I have to wait a couple of months before my current trade expires or I close it before I move my account
    I don't want to move it while I have a trade on
  40. Great info, thanks
  41. How exactly are they able to get better fills? Are they internalizing the orders by routing them to a different wholesale MM than the other brokerages? Sounds like "building the brokerage on top of a HF trading system is exactly that.

    Most (all?) of my orders at IB go to the CBOE COB. Not sure how a different broker would improve execution on those orders.
  42. I have another detail question for those at Tastyworks
    On the BWB when they take out the margin how do they handle it ?
    Do they use all the margin on the more risky side without any consideration of the upper wing or do they take out the margin only from the combined trade of the BWB ?
  43. Dan Sheridan?
  44. I guess so if he is using his middle name
    Otherwise a relative maybe ? If you click on the name it shows where he worked before

    What about the aml officer ? Any relation to Tom Sossnoff
  45. Dan and Scott Sheridan are two different people. I believe they are related but forget how.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  46. Looks like they are inundated with people trying to open accounts
    There is a message when you try to open an account saying that they only accept opening account by invitation only so you have to give them an email address and name to put you on the list and than sometime later on you will have an invitation to open an account
  47. Forgot to include that Case is Tom's daughter.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  48. Oh ok: I am not familiar with tasty folks : looks like this guy is the CEO :
  49. Anyone here using Tradier? They have "commission free" trading for a fixed monthly fee. Not sure, but heard that you need to open the account through one of their partners to get the commission free deal.
  50. They were open to sign up for a while now except there was a waiting period
    Are you saying that there is no waiting period anymore ?
    Where did you get that referral code from ?
  51. They just introduced a referral system. I was sharing to try to offer sign ups to users who want an account and hoping to get a couple referrals.

    They also have a 2 year free of bob the trader, so you see all of toms trades.
  52. I decided to sign up on 1/30 but when I tried to use the website it was not working so after I sent them an email they added me to the waiting list
    So after about 2 weeks I got my invitation to open my account which I did and than it was another week to fund my account with an ACH
    Then I got in right away with my first trade on 2/27
    So you can use the referral code but I don't think they are ready to open accounts directly
    I think you still have to be placed on a waiting list unless this was changed recently
  53. Here is an interesting link I found a couple of days ago

    It's Dan Sheridan talking to Tom Sosnoff about the platform back in January after they just opened
    What was interesting was the things that they are working on and the improvements that they will be making to the platform in the coming months
    So they are working on it to make it even better
  54. So I closed my first trade at Tastyworks I just made a quick 2% on margin in 6 days
    The main thing I wanted to see is what are the commissions and the fees like in reality
    So I paid $56.89 round trip for 22 SPX contracts and just for comparison I paid $56.98 at another brokerage (not tos)
    So it's quite competitive and even better for something other than SPX because of the lower fees and smaller lots are even better than that because of the $1 commission
    Another thing I like is that it's similar to tos as far as the easiness of trading is concerned I don't have to argue with the margin department because they take out too much margin on the BWB strategy
    I also got access to Bob the trader free for 2 years which has some interesting back tested research sometimes
  55. Do you know how the SPX commissions on Tastyworks compare to TOS?
  56. Unfortunately I cannot trade the same lot size so I don't have an exact comparison
    But I could calculate a smaller lot size
    I placed a 12 lot in the beginning of Jan and I paid $19.27 so assuming I will pay the same to close it that should cost $38.54 for round trip and for TastyWorks that would be $30.96 so you would save $7.58 by trading at TastyWorks
    Keep in mind that TOS will start charging less soon so that would be about $6 less so the difference will be less
    Also keep in mind that for higher lot numbers the difference will be even less as those $1 per trade ads up
  57. You mention that TOS would be charging less soon......where did your see that and how much less?
  58. This is from TD Ameritrade

    Alongside outstanding trading platforms, a strong track record of innovation, broad product choices, free education, and personalized support and guidance, we’re happy to bring even more value to your TD Ameritrade experience with lower pricing.

    On Monday, March 6, our commissions for online equity and exchange-traded fund (ETF) trades were reduced to $6.95—and option pricing has been lowered to $6.95, plus $0.75 per contract. Option exercise and assignment fees still remain at $19.99.

    For more information, view our press release or call 800-669-3900 to speak to one of our TD Ameritrade representatives 24/7.
  59. Thanks. Just be aware that is the TD schedule. TOS uses a different schedule.
  60. Not sure what you mean by different schedule
  61. TOS used to have a different schedule than TD that was $1.xx per contract with no other charges. That was what I was referring to. There is a forum on here that compares TOS and IB commissions.
  62. TDA offered a flat 1.50/contract for options. It was called the Dough rate until recently. The rate was not TOS specific. TOS is only a trading platform. TD Ameritrade is the brokerage firm.

    The brokers seem to have entered a pricing war but that only affects the default rates offered.

  63. Thanks for clarifying
    I was referring to the TD Ameritrade schedule since I thought that is what Casey was asking about assuming that TOS and TD Ameritrade is interchangeable
    That is the regular fee
    Now if he meant some other brokerage using the TOS platform or getting some discounts for volume than it becomes more difficult to make a comparison Than it becomes more of an individual question as to what is the lowest rate you can get under what circumstances so that would require a more specific question
  64. I now have an account at tastyworks but cannot still see any benefit over TOS for me. Since I trade mainly SPX butterflies, tastyworks commission is about 50% higher than my TOS (or almost double if you consider that most of my trades are allowed to expire without having to close them). I also do not see a risk graph in the platform or is that in the making? Without a risk graph I will be trading blindly! Not good.
    Where is the tastyworks edge?
  65. I think the major difference with Tastyworks boil down to whether you let your contracts expire or you close them manually. If you preference is to close them manually then obviously Tastyworks is better because there is no broker fees if you opened them at Tastyworks. You still have to pay the expensive SPX exchange fees. So it depends on your style of trading. $1.00 commission is not the lowest commission but if you close your positions it averages to .50 contract.
  66. Thanks Edward, you are correct but for SPX adding the exchange fee of 75 cents each way adds $1.5/contract which is too high for me.
  67. So, if I'm reading this correctly, it's $2.50 round trip per contract for SPX trades at Tastyworks?
    To Open = $1.75
    To Close = .75
    Total = $2.50 per contract
  68. Yes Casey, you are correct. For SPX it is $2.50/contract round trip at tastyworks. For regular stock options, it is $1.20/contract ($1.10 + $0.10) round trip
  69. Hi, long time lurker, new poster. I have been researching this a lot too on what the advantages would be. I found a rather decent mixed review on reddit buried a few threads back. Some guy is updating it with their feedback and experience. Though clearly he/she is clearly hoping people click their referral link for some benefit or another, it's seemed a pretty useful and thorough review. Here's the link to the reddit thread:


    I think it ultimately comes down to what you trade most, right? It seems like smaller, more frequent trades are best on tastyworks and think or swim is best for the bigger chunk trades on things like SPX like you're saying. Also, beta platforms sometimes scare me off. But it sounds like they are really pushing to capture customers and improve their system. I have mixed feelings other than it apparently doesn't cost anything to sign up other than you have to fund the account. Is it worth checking out? I'm tempted to open an account on reddit to ask him about the risk graph. That's a really good question. What do you think?
  70. JohnR,
    Yes I think it is worth checking out. I already have an account. Thanks for sharing the reddit thread. I can see that the Tastyworks advantage is in frequent trading and outside of SPX. I notice the platform is really easy to manipulate and also consumes little memory, therefore very stable. I am probably going to start with a small account and do relatively simple non-SPX trades like credit spreads, cash secured puts, etc and keeping my heaving trades at ToS
  71. I have accounts with both and the comments here are spot on. If you are trading indexes and you've negotiated to $1 at TOS then it is cheaper than TW. TW has no risk graph and given how Tom and Tony approach options trading, I'd be surprised if it's on the road map. It feels like they wanted a platform tuned very well to how they trade on their show. For that - lots of small trades in regular stocks - TW is a better deal. TW doesn't have the historic data and OptionVue support you get in ToS/TDA which is nice for manual backtesting.
  72. The thing I like about TW is the fact it is new and must attract more users to be successful. That means it has to improve. I've also heard from a friend that at least one of the other options groups out there is in talks with them to write specialty indicators for them. I think it's John Carter's Simpler Options group.

    I'd bet if you contacted TW and asked them for a matched fee structure like TOS, they'd match.
  73. I ended up following their referral link and setting up a small, few thousand dollar account to play with. The interface looks really stable, I agree. I really like the ease of use. I got used to ToS over the years, but I can see how easy a switch would be. I'm very curious to see where they take the platform. I kind of just wanted to have the account to be grandfathered in just in case they eventually add platform fees to new users. Thought that seemed like a good idea.
  74. I could never sign up for a brokerage named Tasty Works.

    Just sayin'
  75. Somehow I doubt that they are going to match it because their objective was that everyone should pay the same price so there is no game playing with the commissions based on volume or other factors

    You are correct about John Carter but if you have a TOS account you should have those indicators already unless he has a totally new indicator that he just came up with recently
  76. I got a new email from TW today and here is what it says
    "Starting tomorrow, on Jan 2nd, 2018, tastyworks is introducing capped commissions for large option trades. This means the most commission you will pay for any single leg option trade is $10* (plus clearing fees). That’s right, just $10* per leg!"
    Although I am not exactly sure what that means if I trade lets say 30 SPX contracts
    So If I trade 30 puts with the $1 per contract it would be $30 but with this new plan it will be $10 ?
    But what if I have the same trade as a condor that the $1 per contract is still $30 but with this new plan it will be $40 ?
    I have to find out more detail about this

    There was also this announcement
    "On the technology side, tastyworks is releasing a new analysis tab, portfolio margin, options on futures, paper trading, an open API, a new scripting language and lots of new mobile features."
    I am interested in the analysis tab to see how it compares to TOS or how it differs from the current one
  77. I received this email from Tastyworks today. No change to 10 contracts or less.

    To start off 2018 just right, we want to thank you for your show of unconditional support and irreplaceable loyalty for tastytrade and tastyworks. You are the reason we’re driving change to the financial industry. We’ve not only planned more of what you love, like more live tastytrade shows in 25 cities, more trading tools, more mind-blowing content, more new daily shows – but also stuff that will leave you thinking, “How’d they do THAT?”

    tastyworks introduced zero commissions to close trades on Jan 3rd, 2017. Starting tomorrow, on Jan 2nd, 2018, tastyworks is introducing capped commissions for large option trades. This means the most commission you will pay for any single leg option trade is $10* (plus clearing fees). That’s right, just $10* per leg!

    Eighteen years ago, when we built thinkorswim, 100 option contracts to open and close was $300+. At the time, we thought $1.50 per contract was cheap. Today, the industry average per contract is about $.70 plus a small ticket charge. So, 100 option contracts today is approximately $150 to open and close at most firms. With tastyworks’ new rate schedule, the same trade will cost $10 in commissions to open, zero in commissions to close and a $20 clearing fee for a total of $30. Compare that rate to any other firm on the planet and remember how good our technology and content is as well. Fees for small options trades (10 contracts or less) stay the same.

    But we’re not done. As an added bonus, tastyworks will have twelve monthly drawings for funded accounts (minimum of $2,000) and each month, one customer will win free commissions for 5 years. And no, we haven’t lost our minds. We simply want to do something special and this is just the start.

    On the technology side, tastyworks is releasing a new analysis tab, portfolio margin, options on futures, paper trading, an open API, a new scripting language and lots of new mobile features.
  78. What about for more than 10 contracts ?

    I am just not clear on what they mean by per leg
    To me that means a spread has 2 legs so $10 each leg
    In the example about the 100 contract there was no mention of the legs but in the announcement they make a clear distinction of saying per leg
    So if each leg has 10 contracts I guess it makes no difference but if for example I have a condor lets say 5/5/5/5 contracts
    So that's 20 contracts but four legs
    How is that calculated ?
  79. I just checked with customer service for confirmation. A 5 lot iron condor, 4 legs, would be $20 commission. This is same as before...$1.00/lot to open and zero to close. A 20 lot would be $40...max $10/leg. Add clearing fees. I'll have to check more on the exact clearing fees. I have accounts both here and TOS. Still do most on TOS, but doing more on Tastyworks.
  80. That sounds like a good deal for someone who trades a lot of contracts
    So a condor with 100/100/100/100 that''s 400 contracts that would be just $40 so that's 10 cents per contract
    I am not sure if this helps out those who trade SPY I guess it depends on how much the other fees add up to
    I don't think it will help me much since I usually trade less than 40 contracts
  81. That's the way it seems to me. I'm doing some weekly calendars in stocks that this may help me, though otherwise I'm usually 10 or fewer contracts. I will check my fees.
  82. So I talked to tastyworks about the new commission structure:
    A 1000-lot SPY BF (4000 contracts) would cost $1,183.09:
    $30 in commissions + clearing fees of $800.20 + ORF fees of $344.886 + TAF of $8.002
    If you have .75/contract on SPX, roundtrip for a 100-lot BF would be $600 (300 per)
  83. The new Analyze tab is out today
    First impression is pretty much what I have imagined
    It's better than most brokerages which is next to nothing but not as good as TOS although I have not fully tested it
    Hopefully they can tweak it later on to make it better based on users input
  84. I reviewed their videos on the analyze tab and played around with it and I thought they did a great job. I changed from TOS to tastyworks over a year ago for the simplicity of orders and they kept their simple theme on the graph. The commission are better for me too.
    The only thing missing is the graph of your total portfolio (next on the list).
    The analyze graph is easy to manipulate. You can change dates, volatility, greeks, positions, add to existing positions to see the change. I can’t really find any faults yet, still testing it.;)
  85. Yes, they have a lot of theo prices which I am not sure if that has any value since you can't get filled at those prices
    They have the p/l but that is just a number so it's not part of the graph
    They need to add another button for the p/l where the greeks are that way you can select which graph you want to look at
    and than you could compare the real p/l to the theo p/l just to see what the difference is but that would be just for reference
    One interesting thing is that you can superimpose the theo p/l with one of the greeks and you can see where the delta for example crosses over the tho p/l Not sure if that has any value but perhaps that could be used as reference adjustment point
  86. I am able to show the p/l on the graph as well as the projected p/l .... similar to the T+0 or whatever number you need. You can just scroll the dates and/or volatility.
    There are a lot of features that can be turned on or off.
    You’re right about the greek overlay.... good for adjustments. I will keep playing with it.
  87. Are you looking at the p/l or the theo p/l graph ?
    Is there a setting to change that ?
    I have not found it although I have not played with it long enough
  88. From what I see, the orange line is the p/l theo or as we know the T+0 or what ever date we want. If we scroll the dates and/or volatility, it changes the orange line. That is how they explained it. See the pic:

  89. I understand what you are saying but the Theo p/l is not the same as the t+0 line in TOS
    The one in TOS shows the OPEN p/l which is a lot closer to reality than the theo p/l
    That's why I was saying that I would have preferred to see the open p/l rather than the theo p/l but it's better than nothing at this point
    If you look at the analysis selection control page where you have all the numbers you see in the video a column for open p/l and another for theo p/l and you can see that one shows a small loss while the other shows a small profit which may be ok for one spread but if you increase to lot size that difference can add up to hundreds of dollars
  90. I sent an email to them about this and they replied saying that they will add this to the features request list so I think if more user will ask for this they will add it
    So it's up to us to demand it
  91. Just sent my request.