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PLEASE VOTE: OptionVue Feature Request Poll

Discussion in 'OptionVue Forum' started by TheSpeculator152, Jan 17, 2016.

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Which improvements would you like to to see in OptionVue to improve performance and usability?

  1. Multi-core & multi-threadding support // faster performance

    64.4%
  2. 64-bit support (4GB+ RAM Support)

    54.2%
  3. Multi-monitor support // floating windows

    52.5%
  4. Proper cloud storage of back-test data for near instant loading // use global CDN for faster load

    67.8%
  5. 5-minute intraday data

    39.0%
  6. Improved UI // UX (user interface and user experience)

    74.6%
  7. International options exchange data

    16.9%
  8. None of the above

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. TheSpeculator152

    TheSpeculator152 Well-Known Member

    LET'S IMPROVE OPTIONVUE TOGETHER!!
    Having used robust trading platforms such as TradeStation and MultiCharts for years, I am surprised to see that what appears to the be leading software platform, regarding Greek modeling, has not kept up with advances in modern software architecture. I have tested OptionVue for some time and am frustrated by its ease of use, poor performance, and varying stability.

    Capital Discussions and other communities have recently had success in getting the OptionVue Team to revert their Vol modeling, so I have created the below poll in the hope that we, as a community, can show how much we care about an improved architecture of the platform that many of us rely on for our trading.

    ONE is adding features quickly and I am, on behalf of OptionVue, concerned that OptionVue will start loosing a lot of market share if they do not begin to re-architecture their solution and be more innovative in the features offered. It will only take so long for ONE to catch up with their modeling engine.

    Please vote to help improve OptionVue and let me know if you want me to add other major features to this poll.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
  2. uwe

    uwe Well-Known Member

    Mmh, I was a customer of ONE in the past (two times, each 12 months long). Back then it was my impression, that promised features take ages. Buttons like the automatic backtest are without function for years. And there could pass 10 months without a new release in between.

    I agree, OV is really ancient. As far as I know it is written in Delphi, which is ancient itself (it even was ancient a decade or two ago).

    The biggest feature I'm missing (in both) is web based access. I would like to have a quick look from my smart phone or tablet. Both require Windows, I'm a Mac user...
     
    runmael, Balazs, Timo and 1 other person like this.
  3. vega4mike

    vega4mike Well-Known Member

    Great idea, my suspicion is that OV just haven't got the resources to implement any of the above. It appears that for now OV is employing the milk the cash cow business model, until the milk runs out, by then the architects of OV may then just retire.:rolleyes:
     
    Andrei likes this.
  4. TheSpeculator152

    TheSpeculator152 Well-Known Member

    I fear exactly the same and the hidden intent of this thread is also for OV to speak out about their future plans.

    My suggestions are not easily implemented and will require starting from scratch using a modern language such as .Net or even better, build the solution as a cloud based HTML5 solution with a solid and powerful backend; similar to www.tradingview.com.

    Let's collect votes and see what happens.

    Cheers
     
  5. tom

    tom Administrator Staff Member

    Off topic a bit, but http://www.code2015.com/ shows still a fair number of people are still using Delphi, which surprised me. Obviously it's a very small sample, but still interesting.
     
  6. Kevin Lee

    Kevin Lee Well-Known Member

    Who knows... maybe in a few years when options trading become more mainstream, options analysis functions like ONE and OV will be part of the broker platform and free ;)
     
  7. TheSpeculator152

    TheSpeculator152 Well-Known Member

    I don't think that's going to happen. Brokers such as Interactive Brokers would rather provide state of the art APIs for platforms such as ONE and MultiCharts to integrate too. If they were to offer premium features such as these, their fees would be higher and their focus divided - TradeStation is a good example of misdivided attention.

    Personally, I prefer a best-of-breed approach. Rock-solid execution with cheap brokerage fees and state-of-the-art analysis platform.
     
    Andrei likes this.
  8. Andrei

    Andrei Well-Known Member

    That may not be a very good indicators I am sure there are still some COBOL programmers out there.;) When Borland (remember Philippe Kahn) first introduced it, it was a good alternative to various development environments (at my company we tested just about all of them, although we went with another one). But today, I doubt it is keeping up. This is the first time I see it mentioned in about 15 years.
     
  9. TheSpeculator152

    TheSpeculator152 Well-Known Member

    Python and Swift is the future ;-) Apple recently made Swift open source.
     
  10. Andrei

    Andrei Well-Known Member

    Just looking at the list of requests. it occurs to me that ONE already has some of the features and probably is closer to implementing some other feature, due to the more robust developing platform. I think they are using .NET?? I am not sure. To add some of the more "technological" feature OV may need to move to a different platform.

    Somebody who has access to ONE could you check which of the features are already in ONE.

    On another topic, I do not think TOS or IB would want to invest a lot of money into replicating OV or ONE, the market is too small and at the same time very particular about their trading. Although, if TOS would add some features to better track trades and provide true P/L including realized gain losses, it will be possible to use TOS to trade complex option positions.
     
  11. TheSpeculator152

    TheSpeculator152 Well-Known Member

    Yes, ONE already has some of them and it is absolutely a more robust platform. However, what they don't have (yet) is the best Greek modeling.
     
  12. Andrei

    Andrei Well-Known Member

    Somebody who has access to ONE could you check what features
    Both OV and ONE are driven by their founders and original developers. Both will reflect priorities set by these two people respectively. And I don't get a feeling that OV values UI as a high priority.
    Also, they also both have the same problem, lack of cash for major expansion into things like tablet-type interfaces or Mac support. Having those would be nice but for now I would be happy if they just focused on the basics: solid and reasonably intuitive interface, reliable IV modeling, good performance, back-testing, trade tracking, solid reporting and Excel interface. I would also like to see good quality control and production release process including roll-back plans ( I am mostly talking about OV here).
     
  13. Jerry Furst

    Jerry Furst Member

    Looks to me like a lot of ONE shills... Complaining about the fact that something is written in C++, IMS, Cobol, or Delphi ignores the end result and years of improvements.
    Being a long time user, and proponent of OptionVue, I have not seen any software that has the features and one click interface that OV provides. I've used ONE, ToS, and others, but there is nothing that I have seen that has teh features, and ease of use UI that OptionVue provides. Nothing is perfect, especially a software program keeping up with the options markets.

    IMO, The discussion about how 'ancient' it is only shows peoples ignorance that some people think 'newer is better', only to be deeply disappointed and regretting what they asked for. I hope that Len and the people at OptionVue never cave in to the requests of redesigning the software just for the sake of making it "look pretty" for a MacPad.

    A clear example of this is eSignal, having revamped their charting software to accommodate a new "look and feel" for iPads. eSignal's overhaul resulted in a huge loss of functionality, What once used to take one click now requires several "points and clicks" to accomplish. The UI ino longer resembles anything I recognize, This has resulted in me and many other professionals leaving eSignal - never to return. (Ohhh, but it looks so pretty !)

    Complainers: Think about how much you put at risk on a trade, and apply that amount to a few 1-1 training sessions... for OptionVue and/or trading in general. For people new to OptionVue, I suggest you take the time to learn and appreciate the many features of a program on Version 7, and consider the fact that some things can not run on a tablet with a pinch...take the time to watch the videos, and learn the software before you complain about what language some program was written in.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
    Challenger and ACS like this.
  14. Scott Slivnik

    Scott Slivnik Well-Known Member

    This poll and thread is about the OV architecture which encompasses much more than just how pretty the GUI is. In fact, only one of the poll options references the GUI.

    You are 100% correct that newer is not always better, however, many times newer is better. Just ask IBM.

    One of the primary reasons this poll was created is due to the recent modeling issues. OV's model is the reason some of us purchased a subscription. OV chose to mess with their software's strength rather than their software's weaknesses. This poll is an attempt to encourage OV to shift their focus away from their model and focus on their software's weaknesses.

    ONE's modeling is the only major feature that is preventing me from switching from OV to ONE. ONE is currently working on their model and will likely obtain the software once I feel the model is up to par. A solution that uses a modern architecture and a solid option model is ideal and looks like ONE will achieve that first.

    I will be voting for multi-threading support as soon I am finished typing this reply as I believe this would provide the greatest improvement out of the poll options. OV processes everything in a single thread. When IB or TOS is used as the data feed, the data feed processing ties up the entire primary thread which slows down OV considerably including keyboard and mouse input. If OV were to create separate worker threads for the data feed processing, 90%+ of the keyboard/mouse issues would disappear. Only the GUI, keyboard/mouse and quick operations should be processed by the primary thread. All other operations should be processed by worker threads.

    Delphi is indeed old but is still being updated and is a viable solution today. The recent versions of Delphi can access the .NET framework. There is nothing wrong with sticking with Delphi if one prefers the Pascal language.

    If I decided to develop option analysis software today, a HTML5 solution would be out of the question. Javascript engines are not up to the task except for maybe high-end desktop computers. HTML5/Javascript could handle a basic option model just fine but once more advanced functionality is added, such as CEV, a HTML5/Javascript solution would choke. I would develop a desktop application and then develop apps for tablets and phones if resources allowed.
     
    HowardS, Andrei and Peavey like this.
  15. Andrei

    Andrei Well-Known Member

    Expressing opinions about a product is not complaining. Suggesting another product as an alternative is does not mean "shilling" for it, (none of us is getting paid by ONE).

    If you like OV, great. It obviously they built a unique platform based on a superior model. But it does have many problems, an outdated UI is just one of them. Among them are: performance and slow data entry, poor quality control and often refusal to even admit that there may be a problem, no ability to save positions to the server and thus being able to access them on several computers, etc.

    I do not yet know how I will proceed. But I will give ONE a chance...
     
    HowardS likes this.
  16. Len Yates

    Len Yates Active Member

    Hello Everyone, I read your comments with interest and, in time, I'd lie to respond to several of them. First, am interested in your feedback about the software itself and what improvements are needed. From the survey above, I see that performance and UI are major categories. I'm going to need more details. Regarding the UI, what exactly needs to change? Right now the program allows for overlapping windows like the original Word program. Does this need to be changed into a "fixed frame" layout like what TOS and ONE have? (where the main window has tabs along the top and your focus is on a single asset at a time?) What about the icons? Do they need to be re-designed? If you think so, please help me understand why. It is difficult for me to understand why bold, simple images in black/white, and no words to go along with them, is an improvement over what we have now. But I am open; please help me understand. I need specific suggestions about the UI. (One thing I already know is that we need every date field in the program to allow a calendar image to be opened.) We are very interested in making our software easier to use, and yes, even more modern looking as long as it doesn't tend to make the program more difficult to use. Help me understand exactly what needs to change.

    Regarding performance, it is important to distinguish between the areas of real-time data reception, BackTrader, and other areas of the program. In terms of real-time data reception with IB and TOS, these interfaces are severely hindered by the small number of symbols they can deal with at one time. Also, because of the crudeness of their interfaces, they are extremely difficult to improve upon. I do not have much hope for improving those two interfaces. Keeping your symbol count low is a big help.

    Data reception with QuoteVue (our own service) is excellent for customers with a good internet connection. I want to point out that all of OptionVue's data reception, whether it be QuoteVue, IB or TOS, is handled multi-threaded. Every time a message arrives, Windows launches a new thread and the OptionVue code handles the incoming message asynchronously.

    About BackTrader performance, we are aware that this has been an issue, and even more so lately (esp. the $SPX). We have taken steps to make it possible for users to have local data available so that the program is not having to talk with the server at every step in time. In addition, there was a bug that recently fixed, and will be out in the next release of the program (hopefully later this week). The program was often connecting to, and getting data from, NetVue unnecessarily even when the data was available locally. And I intend to give this area more study to see whether anything more can be done. But meanwhile, if you have never tried the "local data" approach, please do! We recently found that many of our customers were not even aware of this feature. From the main menu, choose NetVue | Collect BackTrader Data.

    OptionVue is a 32-bit program. Changing it to 64-bit would not be difficult. However, we have considered whether going to 64-bit gains anything, and we have determined that it does not. People generally assume that 64 bit is bound to be more advanced, and therefore better, but that is not necessarily true. Going to 64-bit allows an app to address huge amounts of local memory but there can be performance reductions. OptionVue currently addresses all of the memory it needs, and therefore we see no reason to change it to be a 64-bit program. (Our server software (also custom designed by us using Delphi) is 64-bit because it definitely needs to address large amounts of memory. It is also hugely multi-threaded.)

    OptionVue already supports multiple monitors. Is there anything about this that needs to be improved? If so, what?

    I see that there were a few votes for international options exchange data. What exchange(s) are we talking about here? One way of getting price data into OptionVue is through importing from a text file. If you can somehow get price data into a text file, then OptionVue can import it. (File | Import)

    Looking forward to more dialog...
     
    Challenger likes this.
  17. Andrei

    Andrei Well-Known Member

    Len,
    Thank you for your response and taking time to read the posts, criticisms and all.
    Just some quick thoughts, I will try to add more later as I think of various improvements.
    1. The most important to me is to be able to avoid surprise updates with changes changes to the core models, I think you need to set up a beta-testing option for people to download and provide feedback prior to any significant change to the program.
    2. Regarding UI, it really does not make great difference to me how it looks. But some features which are standard in just about any program are not there, such as any date option i.e in back-testing or in moving projection date beyond the last expiration cycle (in analyze screen) should all have a calendar which does not require any data entry. Also would be nice for trade log dates to be enabled so you can click on it and go to that date in back-tester.
    3. A nice addition would be to be able to exclude some imported trades prior to committing them to the trade log.
    4. Data entry delays is a real annoyance
    5. Multi-windows and multi-screen support is a big subject and I am sure many people will have many opinions. Adding tabs will be an improvement, so you can have RUT tab and SPX tab, etc. I would like to be able to move the analyze frame to separate screen and have an option to link it to any changes in the model, (an "update" button should suffice)
    6. Being able to save trade history and back-testing logs to the serve. Thus making it easier to access them while traveling and working away from home.
    7. I still would like every trade to have a unique ID associated with it. Using R field just insufficient for me. Thus I use a new account for each trade, I think many people do the same.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
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  18. TheSpeculator152

    TheSpeculator152 Well-Known Member

    @Len,

    Thanks for your feedback. Let me elaborate on the thoughts behind the features listed in the poll while commenting on some of the points you brought up in your response.

    For any trading analysis software, whether it being OptionVue, TradeStation, MultiCharts, ONE, etc., I care about four areas:
    • STABILITY & RELIABILITY: How stable and reliable is the software? Does it freeze or crash often? Is each new release properly tested?
    • PERFORMANCE: Does the solution have near real-time (sub-second) response times across all features except for areas where one does e.g. download of large amounts of data or brute force optimisation?
    • EASE OF USE: How intuitive is the software to use? Can I quickly find what I am looking for? Does the UI look clean, modern and is the solution pleasant to work with? Do the colors strain my eyes?
    • TRANSPARENCY: Does the vendor listen to its paying customers by e.g. involving them in voting for the prioritization of new features? Is the feature roadmap shared with users and is it transparent when new features are released and bugs fixed? Is it possible to submit bug reports that are openly tracked?
    STABILITY & RELIABILITY
    This requirement is self-explaining.

    PERFORMANCE
    To improve overall performance the following features were suggested:

    • - Multi-core & multi-threading support // faster performance
    • - 64-bit support (4GB+ RAM Support)
    • - Proper cloud storage of back-test data for near instant loading // use global CDN for faster load

    From a user perspective, the above requests are layman ideas to what can make the software perform better. What is required only you and your team can determine.

    The worst performance lag for me has been when doing back-testing as I sometimes had to wait up to 30 seconds for a new day to load. While there are probably many reasons for this (from bugs to architecture) the fact is that it is frustrating and hinders one from doing one's work. ONE, for example, loads extremely fast when browsing through time and does not require the user to download data files manually, do a batch run overnight, etc. Why can't OptionVue do the same?

    EASE OF USE
    The following feature requests fall into this category:

    - Multi-monitor support // floating windows
    - 5-minute intraday data
    - Improved UI // UX (user interface and user experience)
    - International options exchange data

    OptionVue has a lot of great functionality that is e.g. tugged away behind small buttons. How about refreshing the whole UI and grouping everything similar to Microsoft Office 2016 for Mac, which is both Menu and Ribbon-based? Microsoft has spent so much money on usability research, and I find their navigation, look and feel, very intuitive and easy to use. How about asking a professional UX designer to develop some samples of how OptionVue could be rethought and then let the user community vote for the preferred option?

    Some software packages such as ThinkOrSwim allow the user to move smaller windows outside of the main container, which makes them freely moveable to other monitors - just one example. While the main OptionVue window can be expanded across monitors, I don't call that multi-monitor support. See the below video for how it works in ToS.



    On the color front, it would be nice if OptionVue had a black skin similar to TOS and Bloomberg. It is easier for the eyes.

    TRANSPARENCY
    It would be great if OptionVue would be more open about the future direction of the platform. How about involving users by letting them vote for new features, have a clear view of what has changed, when new features are launched, etc.?

    Microsoft Office 365 openly shares their roadmap with users and IT professionals so that they know what to expect: http://fasttrack.office.com/roadmap

    MultiCharts does the same: http://www.multicharts.com/pm/

    I hope the above makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
    Robert L., Andrei and Bruno like this.
  19. Rick

    Rick Active Member

    I have a couple additional requests:
    1) Since OptionVue knows when the position is not shown in the matrix window it provides arrow(s) that user must click to bring them into view (or use the scroll bar). Why not automate this?
    2) Under the Gain/Loss tab in the Reports window why don't you fill in the values in the table instead of just showing a summary line at the bottom which combines the entire trade? Perhaps this is already an option that I don't see.
    3) Using two monitors to view the Matrix, Price Chart and Analysis windows simultaneously as I use backtrader works ok for me, but I would like window position memory implemented so I don't have to arrange windows with each use
    thank you
     
    Robert L. likes this.
  20. Andrei

    Andrei Well-Known Member

    I would like to add one more item. The system should verify that all unexpired options present in the trade log are in the matrix. One example would be: loading a trade from TOS and then realizing that some options are not even listed in the matrix.
     

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