My OptionVue Experience

Discussion in 'OptionVue Forum' started by Scott Slivnik, Oct 8, 2015.

  1. Scott Slivnik

    Scott Slivnik Well-Known Member

    Late August I contacted OptionVue to start a two-week trial. 1 or 2 days after my trial began, my OptionVue sales representative contacted me with an offer. The offer was $999 for 13 months (an extra month). I accepted the offer and purchased the software. A carrot was placed in front of me and took it.

    My main workstation is a retina 5K iMac for software development needs. I ran Windows using Parallels Desktop. When I launch ThinkOrSwim and OptionVue, the fans switch to high speed almost immediately. No big deal there.

    When using OptionVue, I use TOS for the data feed. I experienced the exact same issues others here experienced when using TOS and OptionVue together. Keystrokes were ignored and OptionVue stops receiving quotes from TOS. If I use the keyboard at all, OptionVue will stop receiving quotes within 15-30 minutes. I tried suspending quotes when using the keybord, as suggested here, but that only helps temporarily. In short, I experience the same issues as others here except my symptoms are several times worse than described here. I believe the severity of the issues are magnified by running Windows in a virtualized environment.

    I contacted my sales representative today and requested a partial refund. I requested $895.26 of the $999. I used the software for 42 days and expect to pay for that. I would be willing to pay a reasonable termination fee if necessary. I already received a response stating that I will not receive any refund. I have not given up yet though. They were quick to take my money but refuse to do right by a customer afterwards. :mad:

    I will post updates as things progress.

    runmael likes this.
  2. tom

    tom Administrator Staff Member

    Hi Scott,

    When you cancel a subscription, it's common to use the monthly rate when calculating any refund. So in your case, I would calculate it at $99/month * 12 * 42 / 365.25 = $136.61 Subtracting that from $999 would leave $862.39.

    Unfortunately, the OptionVue terms and conditions say "All Sales are Final!" as the final sentence at the bottom of that web page. I don't expect your efforts to get a refund will be successful, but keep us posted if you are!

    I know you used to be able to sell your copy of OptionVue and they would transfer the license to the new owner. Perhaps you can sell the subscription to someone else?
  3. Jonathan

    Jonathan Active Member

    Hi Scott,

    I totally get your frustration with OV. I'm currently using OptionNet as much for it's simplicity as anything and the fact that i need to be trading strategies that are easy to adjust, ie' IC based trades like the weirdor instead of butterfly based trading. That said OV really is superior for complex bfly trades. Might be worth investing in a surface pro to keep on the side...etc depending on the type of trading you do!

  4. Scott Slivnik

    Scott Slivnik Well-Known Member

    OptionVue's technical support's solution is to get a VPS. Basically throw more money at the problem.

    Tom, it is clear to me now why they have the "All Sales are Final!" clause. Shows they are not confident in their software.

    I am willing to sell my license for $500 if anyone is interested. The license is good through October 4th, 2016. Tom, I hope you do not mind me plugging this here.

    Edit: Forgot to include that the license is for the $999 OV7 Essentials subscription.

    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
  5. uwe

    uwe Well-Known Member

    Scott, I'm interested.
    Did you talk to OptionVue and did they agree to the transfer?
  6. Scott Slivnik

    Scott Slivnik Well-Known Member

    I just sent an e-mail to my sales representative asking if a transfer is allowed. If it is not, things may get ugly. :(

  7. Scott Slivnik

    Scott Slivnik Well-Known Member

    When I was on hold waiting for technical support, the new features in OptionVue 6 were promoted. I chuckled at that a bit.

    uwe likes this.
  8. Scott Slivnik

    Scott Slivnik Well-Known Member

    OptionVue stated I need to work the details out with my friend, so I take that as a yes.

    uwe, PayPal is the only online payment account I currently have setup. What is your preferred method of payment? After payment is received, I will send you the login ID and password.

  9. uwe

    uwe Well-Known Member

    Scott, I will send you a PM.
  10. Jim Clements

    Jim Clements Active Member

    When I first evaluated OV last year and experienced the slow/non- response to the keyboard and mouse, I contacted OV support. I use TOS as a live data feed, and the issue seems to be with the OV connection to TOS. This problem is well-known by OV, and they obviously have not corrected it. OV support first recommended that I get a computer with the fastest processor that I can afford, but that solution (if I believed it would work) would only be throwing money at their problem. My computer has a 3.4 GHz Intel I3 dual core CPU and 8 GB of RAM, which should be more than adequate to meet the calculation and memory needs of OV. The second recommendation by OV support was that I tweak the TOS memory usage configuration to see if that helped, and to reduce the number of symbols in the quotes display; it did not.

    I believe the source of the OV/TOS response problem is the communications interface that OV uses with TOS, which is called "DDE" (Dynamic Data Exchange). DDE is an older standard introduced in the 1980's that is known to have the tendency to stop responding altogether when asked to handle multiple simultaneous commands, and to experience dropped updates, inefficient response time, and unreliable performance. Although TOS still supports DDE, it now employs the latest communication interface, "RTD" (Real-Time Data).

    When I noticed that TOS had changed from DDE to RTD, and read up on the improvements achieved in RTD, I contacted OV support and informed them that I believed that DDE is the source of the keyboard/mouse response problem, and suggested they modify OV to use RTD. Their developers replied that this task would require too much effort to implement, and so here we are today, still suffering the same issues.

    The only reason I continue to use OV is that I trade the M3 and bearish butterfly. If ONE improves their modeling, I will dump OV in a heartbeat. This why I lease OV on a month-to-month basis, even though I could save money by going to the long-term lease.

    GreenZone and Scott Slivnik like this.
  11. Scott Slivnik

    Scott Slivnik Well-Known Member

    Good to know that I am not the only person OptionVue tried making their software issues the customer's problem.

    For now my subscription is no longer for sale. Uwe, thankfully, contacted OptionVue and OptionVue stated he may use my login credentials, however, OptionVue would not provide support because the account is under my name. Should take them less than two minutes to change the account details but currently assuming they will refuse to transfer the account. I will not sell my subscription to anyone unless OptionVue will support the buyer.

    I am still trying to come to a reasonable solution with OptionVue. My representative did not respond to me at all today unfortunately.

    I currently use TOS with the Volatility Calculation Mode set to Volatility smile approximation. Based on my testing, the TOS greeks are extremely close to OptionVue's when using that volatility mode. The name of the mode also hints that it instructs TOS to incorporate IV skew in the greek calculations. The P&Ls are inaccurate while using that mode but so is OptionVue (on the risk graph). I switch the volatility mode to the default Individual Implied Volatility when I want to view the current P&L.

    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015
    GreenZone likes this.
  12. Bruno

    Bruno Moderator Staff Member

    Hi All,
    I am also on a Mac and now use OV on a VPS that I access via RDP. I collect data through IB and no problem at all there. DDE is indeed an antiquated 32-bit protocol that I would be not too keen to use on a 64-bit environment.
    A VPS is a safe work environment should anything happen to my Macs here in South Africa. RDP also works fine on all smartphones.
    Apart from using a Mac keyboard, OV is working as expected and I very much appreciate the above hints to make analysis coincide with TOS. OV is what it is, i.e. great modelling average graphics and poor user-friendliness. In an ideal world OV and TOS would work together on some better integrated software.
    It is a pity OV has no intention to add direct order execution with IB as I find the TWS very tedious to work with when compared to TOS.
  13. KiwiDon

    KiwiDon Well-Known Member

    DDE is indeed an antiquated 32-bit protocol that I would be not too keen to use on a 64-bit environment.

    I was of that view myself, until I stumbled upon this discussion on the benefits of DDE vs RTD for calculation of Arbs in MS Excel:

    After extensive testing of low latency feed handling we can vouch a properly designed excel using DDE can outperform RTD/COM significantly.
    In our specific case we are able to process 140 symbols via DDE, calculate 2200 synthetic Arbs and write the results off to SQL db using excel at a precision of 5ms.

    RTD pushing data into Excel is very similar to writing a VBA loop to load an array back to a range. The general rule for performance is to minimize these types of operations and move in blocks (Redim array to range).

    DDE links are essentially memory pointers and operate similar to a formula recalculation if implemented properly.

    This will force excel to "recalculate" dde links and load all of the latest updates in one shot/one calc cycle.

    So, I'm a bit confused at the moment....having said that ONE seems to me to be WAY more stable than OV from an end-user point of view.

    Cheers, Donald

  14. Scott Slivnik

    Scott Slivnik Well-Known Member

    I have confirmed with OptionVue that they will NOT transfer the account so my subscription will not be sold. I wish they would have stated that the first time I asked rather than instructing me to work the details out with my friend.

    This situation has been a learning experience so not all was lost.

    1. Without OptionVue I would not have figured out how to obtain accurate greeks in TOS.
    2. Do not trust any company. I trusted that OptionVue provided a solid software solution and that is why I accepted the 13-month offer. My mistake. Live and learn. I will never enter a longer-term agreement again without having the company prove themselves first to me.
    3. There are more but this post will be long enough as is.

    I have decided to write-off OptionVue and move on. I admit that I was tough on them. I believe that is because I spend the majority of my time on their side of the fence. I am a self employed software engineer and currently working on a complex client/server software for a company that provides software solutions to trucking companies. I know what to look for and how customers should be treated. I do know that if I add bugs to the software and do not eliminate those bugs as quickly as possible, I would be replaced.

    Part of the reason I am refusing to put up with OptionVue is because I screwed up a couple trades during the 42 days I used OptionVue. Both times were on days I fought OptionVue for the majority of the day and the frustration got to me and ended up rushing orders. I cannot and will not risk having that happen again.

    Now I am back to using TOS and Excel to manage trades. Since OptionVue's solution was for me to spend an additional $50/mth. or so on a VPS to make their software usable, I am considering purchasing OptionNET Explorer to keep track of trades. I would use TOS for trade analysis. I had OptionNET Explorer for a year in 2013 and it was a pleasant experience. I did not know the modeling was inaccurate back then. I mainly did iron condors back in 2013 though. Most of my trades are butterfly variants now. Before I purchase the software, are there any other solutions?

  15. ACS

    ACS Well-Known Member

    If you model iron butterflies in TOS or ONE rather than all put or call butterflies it will sometimes get you closer to OV Greeks but in the end there is just no substitute.
  16. Al G.

    Al G. Well-Known Member

    Which setting does one use in TOS to analyze iron butterfly's, volatility smile approximation OR individual volatilities?

  17. Scott Slivnik

    Scott Slivnik Well-Known Member

    When most people are comparing TOS to OptionVue, they are most likely using the default TOS model, Individual implied volatility, which is very inaccurate.

    I use the Volatility smile approximation model in TOS when analyzing the greeks. This model is much more accurate. Do not pay attention to the P&L on the Analyze tab when using this model. I switch back to the default Individual implied volatility model when I need to view the P&L on the Analyze tab. The P&L on the Monitor tab is accurate when either model is used.

    Hope I was clear enough.

    GreenZone and Bruno like this.
  18. Scott Slivnik

    Scott Slivnik Well-Known Member

    Here is a screenshot that shows where the setting is. Click Setup and then Application Settings.

    Attached Files:

    GreenZone and Al G. like this.
  19. Jay Hattler

    Jay Hattler Well-Known Member

    @Scott Slivnik
    Thank you for the heads up about wrong P&Ls when using TOS's Volatility Smile mode. I was really scratching my head about the P&L displayed in the Analysis Tab for my positions.
  20. Scott Slivnik

    Scott Slivnik Well-Known Member

    When Volatility smile approximation is used, theoretical option pricing is used to calculate the P&L rather than the actual option prices. That is the reason the P&L is inaccurate.


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