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Long time lurker, first time poster..with a small account less that 12k, what to do?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jrob, Mar 31, 2017.

  1. jrob

    jrob Member

    I am asking here as this seems to be THE place to be to get REAL advice and REAL results..

    Realizing we all have to start somewhere and it takes money to make money (if you are past the bullsheeto filling the trading space)..I am looking for a methodology or service (want to learn to fish but OK with being fed (making some on followed trades) a little along the way to keep my spirits up..to start building my account with something that can grow as my account does..I am graduated past the .10 high probability credit spreads and iron condors with time bombs built in and would like to be able to "work" my account on a consistent basis with a little more profits available so that I at least can stay with it and see results..I know it is NOT about making money at first, but as John Locke says, it IS important to start seeing a little fruit from your labor to keep those fires burning..

    I would appreciate any advice and am ready to start learning and growing..thank you in advance!
  2. Ice101781

    Ice101781 Guest

    It seems like you have a good mindset about things. I think either the Road Trip Trade or the M3 are great trades to start with. The M3 is a bit more nuanced in its management from my experience, so you might want to go with the RTT. Both of those structures can be scaled down into structures that offer nearly identical risk profiles to the originals.
  3. jrob

    jrob Member

    thank you Ice.. that was what I was thinking but was told the M3 could not effectively be traded with less than 15k.. I was hoping to have no more than 5k in planned capital working at once so that I may have actually $800-2500 actually in but have 50% or more planned available and still have 2/3 reserve so worst case, i lose 1/3 and could build back..up
  4. Ice101781

    Ice101781 Guest

    Well, maybe not the M3 per published guidelines, but a PUT fly + long CALL can certainly be traded with less than 15k. Remember that SPY is 1/10th the SPX, so you can couple options from those chains to mimic the behavior of the risk profile of an M3. The upside is a reduction in capital requirements, while the downside is a reduction in contract granularity. That being said, a similar approach can be applied to the RTT as well.

    I wasn't going to mention capital-at-risk because I didn't want to imprint my risk tolerance on you, but 1/3 CAR is a prudent limit. It'll keep you on the path.
  5. stevegee58

    stevegee58 Well-Known Member

  6. jrob

    jrob Member

    Thank you both!

    I will be checking this thread over the weekend and hope more will chime in..like I had mentioned in the opening, I am far, far from a newbie to options or trading BUT..will be a newbie to CONSISTENTLY PROFITABLE trading if and when..lol

    I am hoping to find a program here I can trade and learn as I go into a full methodology and to my trading to a "real" business and gradual wealth building campaign...

    I am a firm believer in trading LIVE, albeit small but LIVE to have real "skin" in the game and marry that to back-testing as I go..I have ONE and use TOS as my broker (had them 18 years)...
  7. DGH

    DGH Administrator

    I am biased, of course, but I suggest, based on your information, jrob, that you get a trial subscription to the RTT. It's very cheap, and it affords you the opportunity to watch our videos, see our many posts, see our Trade Entry Tool, and review our beautiful (again, I'm biased) equity curve. Now, there are several strategies which can give you an equity curve which points northeast at 45 degrees, but doing the RTT using ES futures would fit your margin requirements I think. Then, if you like our trade, you can subscribe on a monthly, quarterly, or yearly basis in order to follow along and receive my trade alerts (not specific recommendations, but my exact trades in live accounts).
  8. jrob

    jrob Member

    I have an IRA with TOS ..So, with the parameters.. I was trying to figure if the RTT, Kevlar or Rhino..Locke suggested in an article his UB1 or 2 but there are quite a bit of moving options around and with smaller total lot sizes, seems much more difficult and capital/profit reducing..

    Maybe there isn't any system that can be used..Can also had his core income bfly, but haven't been able to reach him
  9. ACS

    ACS Well-Known Member

    You can trade the M3 with one or more RUT butterflies and one IWM call for each butterfly but I think it would be much easier to follow the Road Trip service using ES futures. If you do, don't just be a robot but attempt to understand what is being done and why i.e. let Dan and Tom teach to fish. You will be hard pressed to find two better mentors and once you understand what is going on you can take that knowledge and expand on it to create trades that match your personal style. There is an active Road Trip forum here where you can ask questions and Tom often covers his trades in Trading Group 2 each week.
    Ice101781 likes this.
  10. Mark Mosley

    Mark Mosley Member

    With that kind of money you're probably gonna want to focus on broken wing butterflies. The road trip trade is one of them. You might look at my adaptation of several ideas here.
  11. jrob

    jrob Member

    I saw your presentation with the NC group as I am in Charleston SC..It was quite interesting..

    ACS..I can't trade ES futures options in my TOS ... So any of these a 5k planned trade with rules or coursework to follow?
  12. jrob

    jrob Member

    I am actually starting to feel embarrassed and out of place, I am sorry.
    Guess I should go to option alpha and their $500-1k iron flies..
  13. Ice101781

    Ice101781 Guest

  14. jrob

    jrob Member

    Wow..Will take a look and thank you so much!
  15. Ice101781

    Ice101781 Guest

    Anytime, just trying to spread the good CD vibes.
  16. David Stewart

    David Stewart Well-Known Member

    You might consider Option Pit as well, Mark and Andrew are quite good directing newer traders. If you do I can probably get you a discounted price, so just message me if interested. They have regular classes as well that are usually quite informative.
  17. jrob

    jrob Member

    I am not a new trader, just an underfunded one after blowing three 25k accounts over the last 20 years..lol

    I actually started to get back in the game and found both Falde and Locke before either got big and started their gigs with SMB..bit my mother fell ill and I had to leave again and now finally with all my cobwebs clear, want to get it right..

    To give you an idea Paul Forchione was my futures broker when you had to call in orders and commissions were $50 a side..:(

    He also was still in his infancy..lol
  18. David Stewart

    David Stewart Well-Known Member

    Okay, thanks for clarifying, just to further elucidate as to my trading I became consistently profitable about 3 years ago, and this was when I started studying with the guys at Option Pit. That may just be a coincidence since it was also the time frame when I stopped working a full time pharmacist gig so I had to replace all that income and I just plain studied all day and night until I was able to do so. I also learned a lot hanging around this group as well as SMB, private mentoring with several folks so I just kind of went crazy studying everything I could get my hands on. A lot of text books as well as I like the written word also. What I like about Option Pit is their emphasis on always being hedged and they also are good at presenting the vol products and all of the material associated with those products. As Ray McHardy would say YMMV :cool:
  19. jrob

    jrob Member

    Awesome..And thank you for your input!
  20. PK

    PK Well-Known Member

    I am possibly just a small step in front of you. After many years of trading with a small 10-30 k account a insanely large number of underlyings, instruments and strategies, and having spent a considerable amount of money on courses and "secret" trading tools, I ended up with an overall net profit of about 0%. And to be honest, I was very lucky to have survived all the stupid and risky things I did without having lost money. But to be able to wipe out trading benefits of months and years with a few big or too many recurring small losses was frustrating.

    I "discovered" the broken wing butterfly universe about a year ago and my trading results have become more consistent since then; smaller wins than what I was used to before, but no significant loss at all (with the exception of some weird experiments with 5-10 DTE options). I also traded the Road Trip Trade based on the basic setup and it worked out well. Then I joined the Road Trip Alerts and was surprised by the huge step forward I made in a few weeks. There are so many nuances beyond the basic setup that render this trade more resilient and profitable I was not even aware of. The advantage of the alert service and forum is that you have access to a kind of mentoring, learn in depth how to trade a specific setup and, dependent on your progress and personal preferences, you may decide whether to simply follow the class trades or introduce your own tweaks. I suppose that you can expect similar benefits from the other trading groups and mentoring services mentioned in this thread. This is just to confirm that I believe that the Road Trip alert service, which provides much more than the terms "alert" and "service" may suggest, are a very good way to get started and fit to your needs.
    Sanjeev B and Wolfgang like this.

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